>>>Ok, I see it now, i.e. the "hub" option (sorry, it's no option, is it?) in the SSNB works that way. I based the observations in my last posting on the behaviour of Y! WebRing rings which use the old HTML fragment, and of RingSurf rings. In those rings, the "next5" option starts with the next site, while the "list" option starts with the first site in the ring. Yes. Understood. The "list" option, if invoked explicitly, starts with the 'first" site. >>>I guess there is not much hope as regards Y! WebRing, but has anybody called RingSurf-Hunter's attention to this? Not explicitly that I'm aware of. But I think he is "on" this list. Are you there, Hunter? James S. Huggins